David: Welcome everybody to the Tigers Halftime Breakdown podcast.
My name is David Kashmer. I'm your podcast co host, along with Auburn sports super fan, Tom Dunnam. Tom, how are you doing today?
Tom: Oh, I'm doing okay. I've been sitting over here at Halftime, enjoying a few drinks and, talkin' sports.
David: All right. We're back at it today. And today is a little different than our normal format.
Tom and I normally hit some of the more well known sports, football, men's basketball, different sports like that. But we wanted to take a moment because we've been hearing so much from friends and colleagues about female sports like gymnastics, female gymnastics, and women's cheerleading. And Tom, I was surprised to learn at a high level how difficult and grueling those sports can be.
Tom: Yeah I'm typically, baseball, football and basketball guy, but I'm excited to learn more about this because as I've heard from some people, like you said, it's very grueling and you got to respect the athleticism.
David: Can't say enough about it. And today to that end, we have three high level previous high level and current high level female athletes to explore just some of the special, unique nature of female gymnastics.
And of course, women's cheer. And so with that, we have three guests today. We have Jessica Rizzo, we have Gianna Yates, and we have Sam Medel. And here they are today to talk all about their different sports. Ladies, why don't you introduce yourselves? Jessica.
Jessica: Hi guys. I'm Jessica. I'm a former gymnast and cheerleader.
Early ages. I'm in my 40s now. I was in my teens a long time ago. Not sure how much I'm going to have to contribute the way things have changed, that's what I did.
David: Ladies, please today, don't be bashful. So Jessica, among other things went to worlds for gymnastics, qualified Jessica, I think on the bars qualified for the Olympics.
Do I have it right?
Jessica: I went to a world's. Yes. I could have been chosen for the Olympic team, but I never would have been chosen for the Olympic team. I wasn't a good all around gymnast. I had one, one that I excelled at the others. I was terrible. So bad at beam.
I was a liability, so I would have never gotten chosen, but. On a technicality, if they wanted to choose me at some point, I could have possibly gone had I not got injured, but I never would have. So yeah let's not mislead people.
David: Jessica, it's a lot closer than me. And this shows just how little I understand the nature of gymnastics and scoring.
So I'm happy to learn about it from y'all today. One of our other guests today, Gianna Yates. Gianna, tell us all about yourself.
Gianna: Hi, I'm Gianna and I'm currently a collegiate athlete. I cheer for the game day team as well as the Daytona team that I made very recently. But in the past I've done competitive all star cheers as well as my 6A varsity squad and I'm on my last year of cheering.
David: Gianna, thanks for being with us today. And then next up, Sam Medel. Sam, tell us about your background.
Sam: Hey, I'm Sam Medel. I'm a former JO national team gymnast for the US. And I also did level 10 for I want to say six years, five, six years.
David: Ladies again, thanks for being with us today. And a question I wouldn't have even known to ask us a few weeks ago.
How many bones have you guys broken? I know it seems funny, and if you haven't, I'm just interested to hear about your worst injury because it tells me how grueling of a sport it is that each do. Jessica, how many bones? What's your number?
Jessica: You go to someone else. I have to actually count. Hold on.
David: Alright, sure. Gianna, what's your number?
Gianna: I haven't quite broken anything other than my nose. Two times. And then I've more hyperextended joints really intensely and never did really rehab or anything. So I just continued to hurt myself and hurt myself for what I love. Because if you claim that you're hurt, you have to be in recovery for months.
And that just wasn't in the plan for me, but luckily I've never broke anything. I drink a lot of milk.
David: No breaks, just a lot of ligaments.
Jessica: Think your nose counts.
Gianna: Yeah, I think I've broken my face a lot. I got continuous amounts of concussions. But, I don't break bones.
David: Sam, any bones, ligaments?
Sam: I think I want to say four to five broken bones. I had an ACL meniscus surgery. I had an ACL meniscus surgery. Two labrum surgeries, one in each shoulder, and then I've had I want to say two grade two concussions.
David: It was amazing to me to learn more and more as I heard about just how grueling of a sport women's gymnastics and cheerleading is.
Oh, that reminds me, Jessica, do you have a number?
Jessica: Yeah, nine,
David: nine. You even remember what they are.
Jessica: Yeah. I probably won't say them right, but my coccyx my pubis my right wrist, my right ankle, several toes and fingers my clavicle and then my C5.
David: Wow. Significant injuries, fifth cervical vertebra, pubic symphysis, just among others.
Those are tough injuries. Tom. What questions do you have for the ladies about this really difficult sport?
Tom: The first thing I can ask is what's one thing you wish everyone knew about women's gymnastics?
Sam: I would probably have to say like how, not only physically is it tough, it's also mentally tough. Just basically it has to be your absolute everything your entire life while you're in it, otherwise you're not going to progress how you want to.
Jessica: Yeah, I think you have a limited. So it's different with the guys and the girls, like the guys, athletes, especially with the Olympics, they're much older that has changed.
I've noticed in the recent Olympics, like Simon or Simone, Biles is older than most female gymnasts but when I was younger, I remember that if you did not qualify for Olympics before you were 16, you might as well hang up. Because you're not going and your career is over. Like you, you had to do it young.
And I noticed that has changed a little bit, but I still think for the majority of people, like you have this time limit of when you're able to do it. So you have the really long practices, you went straight after school, you worked out till nine o'clock at night, Saturdays and Sundays, you have a minimum of eight hour practices.
And I don't think that's just with gymnastics. I think that's with cheer too. Gianna, weren't you saying earlier that you have. Especially for Daytona coming up your practices are six to eight hours and you guys are in college.
Am I wrong or?
Gianna: Yes, we do have six and 12 hour practices. Throughout the summer we had four hour practices and this is just for a D2 team.
A lot more goes into it more than just what on the field or for your guys's cases the bar, the mat, it's a lot more than just
Jessica: what you see. Yeah, I don't think people realize how long the practices are at all.
David: With that, it brings up a related question. What was a typical training day or Giana?
What does a typical training day look like for you? Sam, when you were in training and you said it has to be your whole life. What was a typical training day?
Sam: So I lived in Kenosha, Wisconsin at the time, and I trained in Chicago and Illinois, and it would take me about an hour to an hour and a half to get to practice, and I'm more thinking of like our huge like summer kind of schedule.
We would be working at least 30 hours a week and each day was like the first hour was all conditioning and just strength training and stretching, and then you would have about an hour on each event. And then you would have another hour at the end for cardio and more strength training. And then they would say that we had five to six hour practices, but you would not get out of there for at least like seven hours.
David: Jessica, what was the typical day for you?
Jessica: Pretty much what she was saying. So like we, we didn't, we did conditioning at the end. Like we did stretch warmup and they made us do weights. And then we did each event. And then we did two hours conditioning at the end. And I will forever hate abs. I'm not a flexible person.
That's probably why I have so many broken bones compared to the average gymnast because I just did not have a gymnast build. I should have never been in the sport. I just really loved it. So that's why I was in it. But I was never flexible. So I had to do extra training had to do ballet. Like I, my parents used to make me sit in the splits at night.
Like watching TV and stuff because I just I was terrible at flexibility, but that was pretty much the schedule. You go after school. Do you get there 4 or 5 o'clock? You would get a snack break, which was supposedly dinner. And then you were out by 9 o'clock at night on school. And then
Saturdays and Sundays again, they were the long practices unless you're at a meet.
If you're out of meet, that was. Different, but that was your day. That was your life summers. Sometimes we went to camp down in Texas at the ranch other times. So my career was in Oklahoma, Texas and Illinois but it just, it depends. It depends on which gym I was with. I was with several gyms throughout my career.
Who your coach was and what they believed you should be doing.
David: Long days for sure. Tom, any thoughts or questions for the girls?
Tom: It's a lot more grueling than I guess I could have ever imagined. Honestly, I thought we had it the hardest in football growing up, but it sounds a lot more grueling than what anything we ever did.
Jessica: Don't football players take ballet too? I thought I saw that somewhere that some football players take ballet. Am I wrong, Sam? Didn't you hear that too? Yeah, I've
Sam: heard that.
Tom: Some of those wide receivers and stuff to make some of those acrobatic catches, they they might have to.
Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. Sam, did you have to do ballet too?
Sam: God, yes.
Jessica: Oh yeah. I hate it. Gianna, does cheer make you do ballet?
Gianna: No.
Jessica: I did the wrong sport. Yeah.
David: Ladies from ballet to other related ideas. One of the things you mentioned before we started up today was that you wished people knew a little more about scoring for your sports.
So Gianna talk, talk with us a little bit about scoring and cheer and just how that works because to me, it's really something that I don't have my head wrapped around really well to understand how that goes.
Gianna: Scoring. So I haven't been to a competition in a while today. In April will be my first time in four years.
So from what I can remember, and I always didn't like to look at scoresheets cause they just made me sad. I'd only look at it whenever my coach would read it off to us, but it all is so detailed. Like you might hit zero, which means that you hit every stunt correctly. Every tumbling pass landed, everything went very smoothly.
But it doesn't mean perfect. It still divides the first person from the second one. It's about technique. The way that your face looks while you do it is a big thing. Where your elbows hit, where your hands hit. There's just so many little things that can make or break you getting that number one spot.
Like I can't remember any specific It was like so long ago. It's hard.
Jessica: When you guys were in Dallas for, was it NCA or whatever that was I remember you guys placed eight and you were furious cause you had hit zero and both, and you couldn't understand, you guys couldn't understand why you got eight and Dusty got the score sheets and.
It was like the first three teams were basically tied. Like they just picked who is for a second, third, based on what they liked. And then fourth through 10th, you guys were all less than a 10th of a point apart. So it was like pretty much everyone the same. So I don't think people realize in cheer and gymnastics, like the top spots is, can be less than a 10th apart.
For scoring. It's so minuscule and so crazy how they do scoring and the things that you get taken off. For points I don't know as much about chairs, gymnastics, but I know in gymnastics, like if you wear stuff under your leotard, as it's showing, you can get points off for that.
If your toe isn't pointed when it's supposed to be, if you have even a slight wobble on the beam if your toe steps out of the lines on floor, that's a huge deduction. You could throw the hardest passes. And kill everyone. Your routine could be amazing. But if your foot landed on the line or you stepped out, you're not meddling.
I'm sure Sam knows more, can back up on that. I know that scoring has changed a lot since again, 20 something years ago. The first
David: thing that I learned from this is that zero and cheerleading is a good thing. That's amazing to me to learn. You want to hit zero new to me, Sam, what do you have to tell everybody about scoring in women's gymnastics?
Sam: It's not as different as what Jess is talking about. It's pretty similar. I do know in the most recent Code of Points that I had to be updated on. I do have my coaching license with USA Gymnastics. So I had to take a whole course on it. So if you step out of bounds with one foot, that's a full tenth.
But in gymnastics, that's up to five places on the podium. And if you step out with two feet, that's three tenths. So now you go from possibly making podium till you're not even looked at.
And with like pointed toes, if you have one flex foot, it's a tenth. And again, with two feet being flexed at the same time, that's three tenths.
So they do more than just double it if it's one tiny little thing wrong. And they are chasing that like perfection that does seem unattainable and the scoring is so different between J O, which is like junior Olympic and then elite gymnastics. They are even tougher on scoring. So let's say you have a routine that's in J O gymnastics, which is like levels, like one through 10.
You are, could have a nine, five, let's say. You go to elite gymnastics immediately, same exact routine, same exact execution. That's going to be like an eight, five. Oh yeah, explain that Sam, because I
Jessica: didn't say anything about that, that like you, not everything starts at, you could possibly get a 10, like you, your routine difficulty may be the highest score you could possibly get is only an 8 or a 9 it's not, everybody assumes oh, the best score you can get is a 10, no, they base it off your difficulty, so if you're difficult, your routine is only going to start at a 9 or an 8, 5, then that, that could be, if the other girls you're competing against, their difficulty is at a 9.
5 or I don't know anyone that has a 10, but if their difficulty is at a 9, 9, 5, and your routine is only at a 9, you're already starting lower, you can't get more deductions, or you're not going to play. So I don't think people realize not everyone's the same starting point. Yeah.
Sam: So if we're thinking back to the Olympics for elite scoring, that's probably the most difficult concept in my opinion.
Because the execution score is out of 10, which is what everybody thinks about.
But then when you were talking about the difficulty score, it's a whole separate thing that just gets added on. So you try to add as much difficulty as you can to your routines, like Simone Biles vault, for example, the vault that's in her name, the Biles, it is, I want to say, a 6.
5 difficulty score. So instead of starting at a 10, she starts at a 16. 5. So she has so much more leeway to have little mistakes and she can still score really high. Whereas a girl who's doing an easier vault at the same level as her, they may only start at A 14. 5. So there's already a two point disadvantage right there, which is insane, but the execution is out of 10 and then whatever difficulty you had is added onto that.
David: Amazing how scoring works in the system and to someone who's an outsider, just amazing to hear about Tom, any related questions for the girls or anything besides the scoring system that we really need to get out there so that people understand better about the sports.
Tom: I guess the first thing I would ask would be like, can you describe the mental challenges that come to sport and how would you manage them?
David: Ladies? Yeah. What do you think?
Gianna: There's a lot of mental challenges when it comes to cheerleading and gymnastics. Sam, I've talked about this before. I just the Your body image and your self esteem goes throughout the out the window so bad. Your weight is all that matters, the way your body looks, in that uniform, in that leo.
And especially being a female, your hormones fluctuate so much that your body changes so much. That can affect your tumbling, just feeling heavier that day. I know that I've thrown things, and I was like, I felt so heavy during that. And I've been a flyer a couple of times and you'll hear people being like, you're too heavy to be a flyer or you're too skinny to be on the ground.
And especially as someone who has gone back and forth between positions and weights, it's been a huge challenge mentally that I would say for truly is the biggest thing. And then mental blocks with tumbling, obviously, like you will go from throwing tux, like it's no one's business and not even thinking about it.
Not setting, not really having technique anymore, just doing it. And the next day you can't even fathom the idea of going backwards or jumping up. There's a lot of things that go mentally on in cheerleading and gymnastics for sure.
Jessica: Especially if you've been hurt, like once you've been hurt because part of being a gymnast or being a cheerleader is not caring about fear, because you are doing damage to your body, you're flying through the air, you're doing stuff people can't do, you're pushing your body.
And so when you get hurt, and you come back and you train back from being hurt sometimes your body's healed and your brain isn't. And so your career is done, because it doesn't matter that you're healed physically, mentally, you're not healed and you can't. do it. You can't force yourself to do it. And that's a huge part of gymnastic.
It isn't just your physical ability. It's your mental ability to push through and do these things that you're not meant to do, but you choose to do it anyways.
Sam: And gymnastics is so dangerous if you're not there mentally. I can recall a few times in my career that some other stuff was going on in my outside life, like outside of gymnastics, and I wasn't able to fully focus.
And that was probably the most dangerous time that I had a gymnastics because I'm throwing these big skills where my mind is not there. And if your mind isn't fully there, you. are not really, you don't have the same air awareness, which is just like being able to know where you're at in the air to make sure you land everything.
You're not going to be tight all the time. You're not going to be focusing on everything. You're just throwing things around and it's really dangerous to do. Also just if you are not fully what kind of piggybacking off of what Gianna said, if you're not fully confident in your body, that's another big thing because.
The gymnastics body type has changed a lot. It used to be very like ballerina like looking for and now we see breakout people like Allie Raisman, Simone Biles. They have a super strong body type and you do genuinely need that for gymnastics nowadays with how hard these skills are. So if you're not confident in the strength that you have or you're having people that are telling you that you're not small enough, you're not going to think that you're good enough to do these skills, which can get into your head, even if you're fully capable.
Kind of tear you down to a point where you're like, okay, then if they don't believe me, then how could I believe in myself?
David: Interesting.
Tom: Kind of touch on that. Like we saw that middle thing with Simone Biles and 2020 slash 2021 Olympics, right?
Sam: Yes. All of, I fully support her and her decision to completely pull out because what she had was called twisties.
It's very common in gymnastics. It's where you lose where you are in the air when you're twisting, which can be extremely dangerous. It's how most girls blow out their knees. And if you cannot fix that, I know a lot of girls personally that went to sports psychologists to help them get over something like that.
And if you lose that air awareness, you're. 99 guarantee that you're going to get hurt and it's not going to be a little small like injury. You're going to blow out your entire knee or possibly something else. And it's not going to be good for you long term, even in life.
David: Interesting. I'll tell you, I've learned so much today.
And as we start to wrap, as we're getting near our time, ladies, let's start to close up with advice for young female athletes who are interested in gymnastics or cheer and who are progressing. What? What's some advice or some things you wish you heard as you were coming up through the ranks that you think would be useful to tell young female gymnasts and cheer now?
Jessica, any thoughts to share?
Jessica: Like Sam said with a body type changing when I was in the sport and I was young, we had all the really tiny thin Russian gymnasts and, team China, they were all very tiny, very like graceful, small, and the sport has completely changed. So my advice would be to any of the girls that are athletes that are worried about like their self image or their body, time will catch up to you. If you love what you do and you're good at it.
David: Gianna, what advice for young female athletes?
Gianna: I would say to never give up. I never thought I was going to do cheer in college or let
alone be on the Daytona floor even when I was like a younger cheerleader. Never thought because I'm just like not a collegiate cheerleader or so I thought and then now here I am about to fulfill like my biggest dream ever.
So like not giving up and just try it because like I didn't think I was going to get on the team and here I am. I had a full breakdown. I tried to leave you. I'm just lucky that my teammates were like, no, you have to stay and you have to try out. So I definitely think it's worth just sticking to it and trying.
I remember quitting on my varsity squad cause I had this horrible coach and losing my passion for it. And then my new wonderful coach bringing that back and like really helping me in literally every way. It's just worth sticking to if you're passionate about it.
David: Sam thoughts for young female athletes interested in gymnastics.
Sam: I have two small things. The first one is comparison is definitely the thief of joy. Do not compare yourself to anyone else. Your path is your path. There is no way to follow anybody else's path. Take everything at your own time. And then also there is not only just one great gymnastics coach out there.
There are so many other options. If one coach is not working for you or you feel uncomfortable in any way with anything that they say or do during your practices, you have every right to go up and leave that gym. You're not stuck at the gym that you are at. Yeah,
David: educational thing for me learned so much about female athletics in general, but particularly women's gymnastics and cheer.
Tom, what are your kind of closing thoughts as we start to wrap up?
Tom: I have to give bad props to you guys. The things that y'all are able to do, physically, athletically is just. Beyond me. I think it's absurd sometimes what you can do. And I just have to give a hand clap big time.
David: Guys with that let's wrap, let's wrap it up for the listening audience.
It sounds like everybody knows their number or their injuries in women's gymnastics and women's cheer because it is, as we've heard today. Such a grueling sport and something I definitely had a knowledge deficit about coming into today's talk with these three, high level athletic ladies who've had careers in the sport So we can I think it's safe to say wrap by saying that this is these are intense sports and they require a high level of not just physical agility, but mental resilience to really get to the level that each of these ladies has seen I really appreciate You the kind of thoughts for women coming up through the ranks and of course, although I don't share the experience.
It really resonates that this is a difficult sport and each of these is a very difficult sport. We see a lot of things at Halftime we watch a lot of guys sports and women's basketball sometimes but a lot of guys sports like football and basketball We tend to focus on those a lot They tend to be some of the more well known and popular ones, but no less difficult and perhaps even more difficult are a lot of the women's athletics, especially Gymnastics and cheer so with that For me and from Tom and from everybody at halftime, a big War Eagle for everybody out there.
And just remember your female athletes, their level of performance and resilience, because it is no less difficult and sometimes more so for what they deal with in different ways than men's. So Tom, with that, for me, War Eagle, what do you have to say about it?
Tom: War Eagle and I'll support women's sports.
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